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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2006 :  9:37:16 PM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Machine Name:Dell    ID:73 
Status: Member System
Make or Model: Dell Dimension 8100
Last Edit: 12/26/2006
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition 5.01.2600 Service Pack 2
Motherboard: Dell Computer Corporation Dimension 8100
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 @ 1500 MHz
CPU Socket: PGA-423
Primary Video: RADEON 7200 Family (Microsoft Corporation)    PCI Express? No
Memory: 512 MB (2 x 256 RDRAM )
Boot Drive: (Hard Disk) : 65 GB available on 80 GB

PC Wizard Mark:0    3DMark:0

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5.1 Altec Lansing Surround Sound System

EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2006 :  9:38:14 PM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
ok guys.... i guess this is done right. What all can i do?

Evolution_Designz
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Stampede
Better Poster
MY PC

USA
360 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  09:32:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What do you mean by what can you do? If you mean upgrades for your PC, I would switch to two 512mb ram sticks. Since your CPU is socket 423 you can get a 3 GHz processor for 55-60 bucks. And i would suggest a better video card, like a nvidia 6600gt.


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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  11:28:09 AM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
i cant do ram... it would be over 300$ for a ram upgrade. I was told to do a processor and video card upgrade.

I was told the biggest CPU i could put in it was a 2.0 ghz. and i cant even find 423 CPU's anywhere, i looked on newegg and tigerdirect.

Evolution_Designz
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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  11:36:20 AM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Also... My system in my Control Panel says i have 256mb of ram... PC wizard says i have 512... i have 2 stick of ram in, but i also have two other dummy sticks... its required to have them. What do i rely on? PC Wizard or my System for how much RAM i have?

Evolution_Designz
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Rebel2345
Better Poster

USA
136 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  1:05:30 PM  Show Profile  Send Rebel2345 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
You HAVE to upgrade your RAM. A processor and video card aren't going to do anything without enough memory.

Data in use is kept in the memory so that they can be quickly reached by the computer's processor. If your RAM fills up, the processor needs to go to the hard disk to overlay old data in RAM with new, slowing down the computer's operation A LOT.

Even with my setup, (Gig RAM, AMD 3000+, and 6600GT) my computer stutters when I'm playing games because most modern games require atleast a gig for decent operation.

Gaming on PC's is an expensive ordeal. I had trouble finding a job before I bought this PC, so I had to upgrade the family PC. Which, didnt even have a better CPU available for it. I put 256mb of PC133 ram to get 512, and an AGP 9600XT. It helped, but it wasnt enough. So, when summer break came around for school, I moved 200 miles north to my friends house and got a job with him for the summer. I came home a month later with 800 bucks, so I bought the PC I'm on now.

You just gotta find a way to get the money. Without getting more ram, you're not going to be any better off with a CPU and GPU.
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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  4:51:39 PM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Would it help any at all if i put a larger GPU in it? I dont have that much money for RAM... i figure i can throw in a 256mb video card in it and upgrade the ram later. I cant even find a larger processor for it.

Evolution_Designz
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KC
Head Honcho
MY PC

USA
3052 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  6:06:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, where in XP does it say you only have 256MB total RAM, and what the heck is "dummy RAM"?

Per your spec sheet:
Memory
Architecture RDRAM
RIMM sockets four
RIMM capacities 64-, 128-, 256-, and 512-MB RDRAM
Standard RAM 128 MB (minimum)
Maximum RAM 2 GB

More memory is not $300, you can buy a Gig of the fastestet memory there is for around $100 a gig.
Granted that old memory is not cheap and hard to find, but you can get another 512MB for $67 http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3309102

A good 4x AGP vid card will help too, more than a CPU upgrade.
Go for the most memory on the card, 256MB or more if possible but NEVER below 128MB.



KC's Kruisers - It's all how you look at things
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Stampede
Better Poster
MY PC

USA
360 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2006 :  8:37:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think this "dummy ram" is just a false ram stick that occupies the space.


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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2006 :  6:27:25 PM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Sry, i was at my moms house. Yes, dummy ram just occupies the un-used slots... its in there and i dont know why... ive never seen it before.

KC, that ram will not work in my system. Look up RDRAM, you will see what i mean. Remember.... RDram... not SD ram. RD. if you cant find it for 67$ ill send you a happy meal :D

Evolution_Designz
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KC
Head Honcho
MY PC

USA
3052 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2006 :  06:36:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EDZ
Look up RDRAM, you will see what i mean. Remember.... RDram... not SD ram. RD. if you can find it for 67$ ill send you a happy meal :D


I didn't catch you were using RAMbus memory...

SDRAM vs. RDRAM, Facts and Fantasy
http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/reviews/article.php/12095_3598601_3


A Rambus memory system differs from today's SDRAM-based memory systems in several ways. The memory controller is connected to the RIMM sockets through the Rambus Channel, a set of uniform-impedance transmission lines with a 16-bit data bus. The memory controller incorporates a narrow, high-speed interface called the Rambus ASIC Cell (or RAC) that communicates at high speeds across the channel to the RDRAMs. The RDRAMs also have a high-speed interface that allows them to send and receive data at the same speed as the RAC. The addition of the high-speed interface results in a small increase in die size, but also allows higher performance to be obtained. Address and data are routed in parallel on the Rambus Channel, resulting in uniform signal loading. In contrast to current SDRAMs, memory systems that use RDRAMs transmit addresses and data in a wave-pipelined manner on both edges of the clock.
NOTE:That 133MHz stat is from 2001, my memory bus using DDR2 is 800MHz.


The Rambus Channel is routed through the RIMM modules and is terminated on the motherboard after the last RIMM module.
The Rambus channel requires that all sockets be populated with either a RIMM module or a C-RIMM so that the channel remains continuous to the termination resistors.
Hence your dummy moduales
RDRAMs are also 16-bits wide (some versions are 18-bits wide and use an 18-bit Rambus Channel), matching the width of the data path to the memory controller. Unlike SDRAM-based memory systems, in which multiple SDRAMs transmit in parallel across a 64-bit wide data bus, only one RDRAM transmits or receives data at a time across the 16-bit wide data bus. This means that RDRAM-based memory systems can be composed of a single RDRAM, and have a minimum upgrade granularity of a single device.

-------------

RAMBUS 800MHz dram (RDRAM)/RIMM memory modules are insanely expensive.
8 times more than SDRAM and almost 3 times more than DDR2 800MHz memory of the same size.

Figure $440 a Gig
http://shop3.outpost.com/search?cat=-49014&pType=pDisplay

My DDR2 dual channel PC6400 800MHz memory for example was $140 a Gig for the same speed and size, and I bought 2 gigs of the good stuff.

I can see why you would be thrilled to get some for $67.
Best I can find reliable in stock retail is 256MB for $95.
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3222951#detailed

According to the arcitecture, you just replace a "dummy ram" with a real one.

Sure, it's fast RAM no doubt, but you sure pay a premium for it.
I'll have to pass on the Happy Meal bud, I can't find you a bargin.

One other note...
Rambus has been around since 2001 and still not caught on for the PC market (I've never built a systemt hat uses it), only Intel based motherboards use it.
That means it's choice time for you.
Depending on your case, you could sell the motherbaord and RAM, get a new motherboard that supports your CPU, and stock up on superfast DDR2.


KC's Kruisers - It's all how you look at things
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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2006 :  6:29:12 PM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Well, i got news today that i will be getting a new vehicle... i got to throw my money into it. a 2002 ford escape. im happy about it lol. I didnt want this pooter to have RD ram.. but beggars cant be choosers i guess. Maybe someone can look me up a good 4x AGP video card.

Whats the difference between 4x and 4x Pro? I can find some good video cards thats 4x compatable on newegg... only one 256 4x on tiger direct.. im looking for a 256 4x video card... the best i can find for around 150... i really need one cheaper but thats the most i can spend. Can you find a good one KC? I found several... i saw a good LOOKING one by ati... what should i go with... ati or Nvidia? i read that ati isnt that good.... someone help me out here...

Evolution_Designz
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drag_racer
Better Poster

245 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2006 :  7:23:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
this is just an opinion, but I think that in some aspects, ATI cards are better. A few years ago, but this problem may have been fixed since, I had an Nvidia GeForce 3 card I think it was, and I was having driver troubles. It was either go with new drivers, and only be able to play new games, or go with older drivers and only be able to play old games. there was no "happy medium". This problem went away once I went to an ATI card.

**Note: any prices I post are in Canadian Funds unless otherwise specified**
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KC
Head Honcho
MY PC

USA
3052 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2006 :  7:49:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Whats the difference between 4x and 4x Pro? " means nothing to me but i CAN tell you that an AGP video slot has either one or two "slot dividers".
One towards the front connector side of the card, and/or one towards the back side.
A card that has slots for both is what you want.

X speed is just how fast your machine can access the slot over 1 times the design specs.
16X is the max if I recal correctly.

Even though your MB can only muster 4X, any AGP card with both slots should work in it, even if it's rated at 16X, you just won't get the benefit, the trick is, a lot of those once expensive cards are as cheap as the others because demand is dropping off now.

If I were you I'd throw my $ at your new wheels, as little you can do will make your current system noticeably faster.

KC's Kruisers - It's all how you look at things
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Woody
Better Poster
MY PC

USA
255 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2006 :  8:04:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Whats the difference between 4x and 4x Pro?


The pro cards had a longer interface and I think they were able to draw more power. They pro standard never caught on and very few motherboards or cards were made.

quote:
I can find some good video cards thats 4x compatable on newegg... only one 256 4x on tiger direct.. im looking for a 256 4x video card... the best i can find for around 150... i really need one cheaper but thats the most i can spend. Can you find a good one KC? I found several... i saw a good LOOKING one by ati... what should i go with... ati or Nvidia? i read that ati isnt that good.... someone help me out here...



Tom had an article this month on the best graphics cards for various price ranges.

http://www7.tomshardware.com/2006/12/12/the_best_gaming_graphics_cards_for_the_money/

Their recommendation

Best AGP Card For ~$140
Radeon X850 PRO

If you can swing a bit more

Best AGP Card For ~$185
GeForce 7600 GT

My 2 cents on the ATI vs nVidia debate is its like arguing Mac or PC, you will find fanboys on both sides but the objective position is that either one will do the job. You can find examples of one brand doing better at a specific game but overall they are pretty equal.

Reality is for those that cant handle video games.
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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2007 :  5:39:16 PM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Well... what is the best one for the less price? Do you get more bang for your buck with ATI or NvIdia?

Evolution_Designz
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drag_racer
Better Poster

245 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2007 :  9:22:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if you go by the benchmark tests, it all depends on what it is benchmarked with. With 3DMark06, the Radeon is worse than the GeForce, but in Half Life 2 Episode 1, the Radeon is faster than the GeForce in all the HL2 settings.

Here are different Benchmarks *Note: Tom's Hardware has the Radeon X850 AGP listed as an XT, but as AGP, so it's either the right card or it'll be fairly close....each link is in order of higher graphic settings*:
HL2 Episode 1:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=196
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=197
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=198
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=199

3D Mark 06:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=224
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=225
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=226
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=227
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=228
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=229
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=230
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=574&chart=231

Woody posted the Tom's Hardware Recommendations, but I guess it all depends on which benchmark "tool" you use. In the 3DMark06 one, the first couple the Radeon did actually catch up and pass the GeForce by a bit, but then soon after dropped right off the list.

**Note: any prices I post are in Canadian Funds unless otherwise specified**
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Woody
Better Poster
MY PC

USA
255 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  1:48:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EDZ

Well... what is the best one for the less price? Do you get more bang for your buck with ATI or NvIdia?



Thats like asking which is better, Intel or Amd. If you ask twenty people you will get twenty different answers.

IMHO you wont go wrong with either brand, its really just a matter of how much you want to spend. At specific price breaks one brand might be a better buy than the other, that is why I left the link to Toms, they tested many cards and recommended which one to buy depending on what your budget was.

Reality is for those that cant handle video games.
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EDZ
Been Around a Bit

22 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2007 :  11:43:58 AM  Show Profile  Click to see EDZ's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Im not sure about the PC right now... Im getting into the automobile craze, and ill be spending most of my time lookin up vehicles and working for one, so the PC is gonna take 3rd place for now. I may go ahead and buy a Nvidia Video card for it, i looked at toms, i believe i found my card. Thanks guys.

Evolution_Designz
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